[Olsr-users] Not getting any in packets (tables update) with two PC olsr demon setup

(spam-protected) (spam-protected)
Sat Aug 22 14:21:51 CEST 2009


Thanks Markus for suggestion.......I found all the clues vwry useful
We tried with disabled firewall (applied the disabled firewall in admin section of Linux) also but not able to ping PC3 from PC1 and vice-versa!!! we have included the bmf plugin also and its loaded without any error.
 
Actually as we have two interfaces at PC2 so able to connect and ping only one of the path (PC1<----->PC2 OR PC2<----->PC3) at a time and not both. would this be a problem or its normal behavior.
how can we get rid of the problem of ping PC3 at PC1 as we disabled the firewall at all Pcs.
 
Any clue or help is appreciated......
 
vijai
 

________________________________

From: Markus Kittenberger on behalf of Markus Kittenberger
Sent: Fri 8/21/2009 8:44 PM
To: Vijai Kumar (WT01 - Joint CEO Office); (spam-protected)
Subject: Re: [Olsr-users] Not getting any in packets (tables update) with two PC olsr demon setup



Am 21.08.2009, 13:40 Uhr, schrieb <(spam-protected)>:

> Thanks a lot Markus for your one line solution....... after changing the
> firewall setting it works well........ :)
i suggest to change the firewall even more,..
to make ping work,..
>
> Now I am able to see the the table update print after running olsrd at
> three PC setup  and which looks fine
> setup is (PC1-10.105.12.201 <http://10.105.12.201/32>
> <---------------cross cable-------------->10.105.12.202-PC2-
> 10.105.12.203<----------------cross cable---------------->10.105.12.201
> <http://10.105.12.201/32> -PC3)
> Now I have next challange to ping the PC3 at PC1.I included the bmf 
> plugin also but not able to ping the PC3 from PC1???
pings are unicast packets, so you need no bmf to make pings work,..
> later we will try
> video streaming from PC1 to PC3 after ping os fine.
can you ping pc2 from pc1? and vice versa
and can you ping pc from pc3? and vice versa

maybe use tcpdump to verify how far the packets come

does for example http work from pc1 to pc3?
> we are using 0.5.6-r5 version of olsr. I hope that you can suggest few
> points...
>
> vijai
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: (spam-protected)
> [mailto:(spam-protected)] On Behalf Of Markus Kittenberger
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:49 PM
> To: Vijai Kumar (WT01 - Joint CEO Office)
> Subject: Re: [Olsr-users] Not getting any in packets (tables update)
> with two PC olsr demon setup
>
>
> did u checked your firewall?
>
> MArkus
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 8:46 AM, <(spam-protected)> wrote:
>
>
>       Hi,
>
>       Thanks for previous help.
>
>       I am getting the problems in two PC connection running the OLSR
> demon on
>       both.
>       PC1(10.105.12.201)<-------->PC2 (10.105.12.202)
>       I captured the packets using wireshark and at both machine we
> are able
>       to see the OLSR v1 packets of 20 length from each other. But we
> are not
>       getting any output in neigbor and link list OR any proff that
> both side
>       OLSR is running fine (If you know any other method to know that
> both
>       side olsr is fine, reply me.
>       When I am running the command ./olsrd -dispout, I can see the
> outgoing
>       packet display at screen but when I am running the ./olsrd
> -dispin
>       command then no packet is displayed.
>
>       I am attaching the log of the ./olsrd -dispin command at both
> PC1 and
>       PC2 and olsr.conf as below
>
>       Thanks in advance for any help/clue of the problem
>
>       How can we test that both side olsr is fine OR how can we get
> rid from
>       the problem of no display of pkt of -dispin command.
>       If you tell me then I can test your suggestion as well...
>
>
> ###############PC1######################################################
>       ################
>       (spam-protected) olsrd-0.5.6-r5]# ./olsrd -dispin
>
>        *** olsr.org - 0.5.6-r5 ***
>        Build date: 2009-08-21 11:29:25 on localhost.localdomain
>        http://www.olsr.org <http://www.olsr.org/> 
>
>       Parsing file: "/etc/olsrd.conf"
>       Added 0.0.0.0 to IP deny set
>       Added 127.0.0.1 to IP deny set
>
>        ---- Interface configuration ----
>
>       Checking eth0:
>              Not a wireless interface
>              Metric: 0
>              MTU - IPhdr: 1472
>              Index 2
>              Address:10.105.12.201
>              Netmask:255.255.255.0
>              Broadcast address:10.105.12.255
>       New main address: 10.105.12.201
>       Checking ath0:
>              No such interface!
>       Checking eth1:
>              No such interface!
>       Using 'etx_fpm' algorithm for lq calculation.
>       TC: add entry 10.105.12.201
>       RIB: add prefix 10.105.12.201/32 from 10.105.12.201
>       ---------- LOADING LIBRARY olsrd_txtinfo.so.0.1 ----------
>       OLSRD txtinfo plugin 0.1 by Lorenz Schori
>       Checking plugin interface version:  5 - OK
>       Trying to fetch plugin init function: OK
>       Trying to fetch parameter table and it's size...
>       Sending parameters...
>       "Accept"/"127.0.0.1"... Got IP address 127.0.0.1
>       Accept: OK
>       "port"/"81"... Got port number 81
>       port: OK
>       Running plugin_init function...
>       ---------- LIBRARY olsrd_txtinfo.so.0.1 LOADED ----------
>
>       ---------- LOADING LIBRARY olsrd_httpinfo.so.0.1 ----------
>       Httpinfo olsrd plugin 0.1 by Andreas Tonnesen
>       Checking plugin interface version:  5 - OK
>       Trying to fetch plugin init function: OK
>       Trying to fetch parameter table and it's size...
>       Sending parameters...
>       "Net"/"0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0"... Net: OK
>       "port"/"8000"... Got port number 8000
>       port: OK
>       Running plugin_init function...
>       ---------- LIBRARY olsrd_httpinfo.so.0.1 LOADED ----------
>
>       -- ALL PLUGINS LOADED! --
>
>       Main address: 10.105.12.201
>
>       Scheduler started - polling every 0.05 seconds
>
>       --- 11:52:43.962137
> ----------------------------------------------------
>       LINKS
>
>       IP address       hyst         LQ       ETX
>
>       --- 11:52:43.962195 ----------------------- TWO-HOP NEIGHBORS
>
>       IP addr (2-hop)  IP addr (1-hop)  Total cost
>
>       --- 11:52:43.962225
> -------------------------------------------------
>       TOPOLOGY
>
>       Source IP addr  Dest IP addr          LQ        ETX
>       /
>
> ########################################################################
>       #############
>
>
> ###############PC2######################################################
>       ################
>       (spam-protected) olsrd-0.5.6-r5]# ./olsrd -dispin
>       olsr.org - 0.5.6-r5 ***
>        Build date: 2009-08-21 10:54:37 on OLSR.Testing.Terminal
>        http://www.olsr.org <http://www.olsr.org/> 
>
>       Parsing file: "/etc/olsrd.conf"
>       Added 0.0.0.0 to IP deny set
>       Added 127.0.0.1 to IP deny set
>
>        ---- Interface configuration ----
>
>       Checking eth0:
>              Not a wireless interface
>              Metric: 0
>              MTU - IPhdr: 1472
>              Index 2
>              Address:10.105.12.202
>              Netmask:255.255.255.0
>              Broadcast address:10.105.12.255
>       New main address: 10.105.12.202
>       Checking ath0:
>              No such interface!
>       Checking eth1:
>              Not a wireless interface
>              Could not get address of interface - skipping it
>       Using 'etx_fpm' algorithm for lq calculation.
>       TC: add entry 10.105.12.202
>       RIB: add prefix 10.105.12.202/32 from 10.105.12.202
>       ---------- LOADING LIBRARY olsrd_txtinfo.so.0.1 ----------
>       OLSRD txtinfo plugin 0.1 by Lorenz Schori
>       Checking plugin interface version:  5 - OK
>       Trying to fetch plugin init function: OK
>       Trying to fetch parameter table and it's size...
>       Sending parameters...
>       "Accept"/"127.0.0.1"... Got IP address 127.0.0.1
>       Accept: OK
>       "port"/"81"... Got port number 81
>       port: OK
>       Running plugin_init function...
>       ---------- LIBRARY olsrd_txtinfo.so.0.1 LOADED ----------
>
>       ---------- LOADING LIBRARY olsrd_httpinfo.so.0.1 ----------
>       Httpinfo olsrd plugin 0.1 by Andreas Tonnesen
>       Checking plugin interface version:  5 - OK
>       Trying to fetch plugin init function: OK
>       Trying to fetch parameter table and it's size...
>       Sending parameters...
>       "Net"/"0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0"... Net: OK
>       "port"/"8000"... Got port number 8000
>       port: OK
>       Running plugin_init function...
>       ---------- LIBRARY olsrd_httpinfo.so.0.1 LOADED ----------
>
>       -- ALL PLUGINS LOADED! --
>
>       Main address: 10.105.12.202
>
>       Scheduler started - polling every 0.05 seconds
>
>       --- 11:49:39.386321
> ----------------------------------------------------
>       LINKS
>
>       IP address       hyst         LQ       ETX
>
>       --- 11:49:39.386372 ----------------------- TWO-HOP NEIGHBORS
>
>       IP addr (2-hop)  IP addr (1-hop)  Total cost
>
>       --- 11:49:39.386386
> -------------------------------------------------
>       TOPOLOGY
>
>       Source IP addr  Dest IP addr          LQ        ETX
>       -
>
> ########################################################################
>       #############
>
>       ###############olsr.conf at both
>
> PCs#####################################################################
>       #
>       #
>       # OLSR.org routing daemon config file
>       #
>       # Lines starting with a # are discarded
>       #
>
>       # Debug level(0-9)
>       # If set to 0 the daemon runs in the background
>
>       DebugLevel      1
>
>       # IP version to use (4 or 6)
>
>       IpVersion       4
>
>       # FIBMetric ("flat", "correct", or "approx")
>       # Just use "flat", the others don't work very well
>
>       FIBMetric "flat"
>
>       # Clear the screen each time the internal state changes
>
>       # ClearScreen     yes
>
>       # HNA IPv4 routes
>       # syntax: netaddr netmask
>       # Example Internet gateway:
>       # 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0
>
>       Hna4
>       {
>       # Internet gateway
>       #    0.0.0.0   0.0.0.0
>
>       # specific small networks reachable through this node
>       #    15.15.0.0 255.255.255.0
>       #    15.16.0.0 255.255.255.0
>       }
>
>       # HNA IPv6 routes
>       # syntax: netaddr prefix
>       # Example Internet gateway:
>       #Hna6
>       #{
>       # Internet gateway
>       #     ::              0
>
>       # specific small networks reachable through this node
>       #    fec0:2200:106:0:0:0:0:0 48
>       #}
>
>       # Specify the routing Table olsr uses
>       # currently only implemented in linux versions, (bsd planned)
>       # useful for policyrouting, to ensure that olsr can use
>       # the table a policy rule with priority 65536 is auto-installed
>       # by olsrd if an value < 253 ist specified!
>       # value defaults to 253 (main table)
>       # valid values are 1 .. 254
>       # (freifunkfirmware uses 111 for its policy routing)
>
>        RtTable 111
>
>       #you may specify another table for the default route only
>       #if used no policy route will get auto-installed for this table,
>       #but the default route gets also inserted into table 254
>       #(the last table used in default linux policy routing)
>       #valid tables are the same as for RtTable
>
>       # RtTableDefault 112
>
>       # Specify the proto tag to be used for routes olsr inserts into
> kernel
>       # currently only implemented for linux, defaults to 0 which gets
>       replaced
>       # by an OS-specific default value under linux 3 (BOOT) gets used
> as
>       default
>       # (for backward compatibility)
>       # valid values under linux are 1 .. 254
>       # 1 gets remapped by olsrd to 0 UNSPECIFIED (1 is reserved for
> ICMP
>       redirects)
>       # 2 KERNEL routes (not very wise to use)
>       # 3 BOOT (should in fact not be used by routing daemons)
>       # 4 STATIC
>       # 8 .. 15 various routing daemons (gated, zebra, bird, & co)
>
>        RtProto 111
>
>       # For testing purposes it may be nice to use another port for
> olsrd
>       # for using another port than the IANA assigned one
>       # for a production network, there should be a good reason!!
>       # defaults to 698 (IANA assigned olsr-port)
>       # valid values are 698 or > 1000
>
>        OlsrPort 698
>
>       # Should olsrd keep on running even if there are
>       # no interfaces available? This is a good idea
>       # for a PCMCIA/USB hotswap environment.
>       # "yes" OR "no"
>
>       AllowNoInt      yes
>
>       # TOS(type of service) value for
>       # the IP header of control traffic.
>       # If not set it will default to 16
>
>       TosValue        16
>
>       # The fixed willingness to use(0-7)
>       # If not set willingness will be calculated
>       # dynammically based on battery/power status
>
>       Willingness     3
>
>       # Allow processes like the GUI front-end
>       # to connect to the daemon.
>
>       IpcConnect
>       {
>           # Determines how many simultaneously
>           # IPC connections that will be allowed
>           # Setting this to 0 disables IPC
>
>           MaxConnections  5
>
>           # By default only 127.0.0.1 is allowed
>           # to connect. Here allowed hosts can
>           # be added
>
>           Host            127.0.0.1
>           Host            10.105.12.202
>           Host            10.105.12.201
>           # Host            10.0.0.5
>
>           # Specify entire net-ranges that are
>           # allowed to connect
>
>           Net             192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0
>       }
>
>       # Link quality level
>       # 0 = do not use link quality
>       # 1 = use link quality for MPR selection
>       # 2 = use link quality for MPR selection and routing
>       # Defaults to 2
>
>       #LinkQualityLevel       2
>
>       # Link quality algorithm (only for lq level 1 or 2)
>       # Defaults to "etx_fpm" for fixpoint based etx algorithm
>
>       # LinkQualityAlgorithm    "etx_fpm"
>
>       # Link quality aging factor
>       # Defaults to 0.05, smaller values mean larger LQ window size
>       # Link quality aging does only apply to lq level 1 and 2
>
>       # LinkQualityAging 0.1
>
>       # Fisheye mechanism for TC messages 0=off, 1=on
>       # default is 0
>
>       # LinkQualityFishEye    0
>
>       # Wether to use hysteresis or not
>       # Hysteresis adds more robustness to the
>       # link sensing but delays neighbor registration.
>       # Used by default. 'yes' or 'no'
>
>       UseHysteresis   no
>
>       # Hysteresis parameters
>       # Do not alter these unless you know
>       # what you are doing!
>       # Set to auto by default. Allowed
>       # values are floating point values
>       # in the interval 0,1
>       # THR_LOW must always be lower than
>       # THR_HIGH!!
>
>       #HystScaling    0.50
>       #HystThrHigh    0.80
>       #HystThrLow     0.30
>
>
>       # Polling rate in seconds(float).
>       # Default value 0.05 sec
>
>        Pollrate       0.05
>
>       # Interval to poll network interfaces for configuration
>       # changes. Defaults to 2.5 seconds
>
>       NicChgsPollInt  3.0
>
>
>       # TC redundancy
>       # Specifies how much neighbor info should
>       # be sent in TC messages
>       # Possible values are:
>       # 0 - only send MPR selectors
>       # 1 - send MPR selectors and MPRs
>       # 2 - send all neighbors
>       #
>       # defaults to 0
>
>       TcRedundancy    2
>
>       #
>       # NatThreshold
>       #
>       # (currently this is only in the freifunk firmware)
>       # If the NAT-Endpoint (the preferred 0/0 HNA
>       # emitting node) is to be changed, the ETX value of the current
> 0/0 is
>       # compared to the new one. If the ETX difference is too small,
> the
>       default
>       # route isn't changed. defaults to 1.0
>       # The configured route gets multiplied by the treshhold,
>       # before comparing which route is better
>
>       # NatThreshold  0.9
>
>       #
>       # MPR coverage
>       # Specifies how many MPRs a node should
>       # try select to reach every 2 hop neighbor
>       #
>       # Can be set to any integer >0
>       #
>       # defaults to 1
>
>       MprCoverage     3
>
>
>       # Olsrd plugins to load
>       # This must be the absolute path to the file
>       # or the loader will use the following scheme:
>       # - Try the paths in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
>       #   environment variable.
>       # - The list of libraries cached in /etc/ld.so.cache
>       # - /lib, followed by /usr/lib
>       #
>       # the examples in this list are for linux, so check if the
> plugin is
>       # available if you use windows/BSD.
>
>       # LoadPlugin "olsrd_httpinfo.dll"
>       LoadPlugin "olsrd_httpinfo.so.0.1"
>       {
>          # port number the txtinfo plugin will be listening
>          PlParam     "port"   "8000"
>
>          # ip address that can access the plugin, use "0.0.0.0"
>          # to allow everyone
>       #   PlParam     "Host"   "127.0.0.1"
>       #   PlParam     "Host"   "80.23.53.22"
>
>          # networks that can access the plugin (ip/netmask)
>          PlParam     "Net"    "0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0"
>       #   PlParam     "Net"    "192.168.0.0 255.255.0.0"
>       }
>
>       # LoadPlugin "olsrd_txtinfo.dll"
>       LoadPlugin "olsrd_txtinfo.so.0.1"
>       {
>          # port number the txtinfo plugin will be listening
>          PlParam     "port"   "81"
>          # ip address that can access the plugin, use "0.0.0.0"
>          # to allow everyone
>          PlParam     "Accept"   "127.0.0.1"
>       }
>
>       #LoadPlugin "olsrd_secure.so.0.3"
>       #{
>          # define source of keyfile for secure plugin
>          # see lib/secure/README_SECURE for more information
>
>       #   PlParam     "Keyfile"   "/etc/olsr-keyfile.txt"
>       #}
>
>       #LoadPlugin "olsrd_dyn_gw.so.0.1"
>       #{
>          # Here parameters are set to be sent to the
>          # plugin. Theese are on the form "key" "value".
>          # Parameters ofcause, differs from plugin to plugin.
>          # Consult the documentation of your plugin for details.
>
>          # Example: dyn_gw params
>
>          # how often to check for Internet connectivity
>          # defaults to 5 secs
>       #   PlParam     "Interval"   "40"
>
>          # if one or more IPv4 addresses are given, do a ping on these
> in
>          # descending order to validate that there is not only an
> entry in
>          # routing table, but also a real internet connection. If any
> of
>          # these addresses could be pinged successfully, the test was
>          # succesful, i.e. if the ping on the 1st address was
> successful,the
>          # 2nd won't be pinged
>       #   PlParam     "Ping"       "141.1.1.1"
>       #   PlParam     "Ping"       "194.25.2.129"
>       #}
>
>       # olsrd_dyn_gw_plain.so.0.4
>       # {
>       # }
>
>
>       # Interfaces and their rules
>       # Omitted options will be set to the
>       # default values.
>       # multiple interfaces can be speicified
>       Interface "eth0" "ath0"
>       {
>
>          # IPv4 broadcast address to use. The
>          # one usefull example would be 255.255.255.255
>          # If not defined the broadcastaddress
>          # every card is configured with is used
>          # The second useful value would be to
>          # specify the peer adress of an ptp-tunnel
>
>           Ip4Broadcast      255.255.255.0
>
>          # Interface Mode is used to prevent unnecessary
>          # packet forwarding on switched ethernet interfaces
>          # valid Modes are "mesh" and "ether"
>          # The default value is mesh!
>
>          # Mode "mesh"
>
>          # IPv6 address scope to use.
>          # Must be 'site-local' or 'global'
>
>          # Ip6AddrType               site-local
>
>          # IPv6 multicast address to use when
>          # using site-local addresses.
>          # If not defined, ff05::15 is used
>
>          # Ip6MulticastSite  ff05::11
>
>          # IPv6 multicast address to use when
>          # using global addresses
>          # If not defined, ff0e::1 is used
>
>          # Ip6MulticastGlobal        ff0e::1
>
>
>          # Emission intervals.
>          # If not defined, RFC proposed values will
>          # be used in most cases.
>
>          # Hello interval in seconds(float)
>           HelloInterval    2.0
>
>          # HELLO validity time
>          # HelloValidityTime 20.0
>
>          # TC interval in seconds(float)
>           TcInterval        5.0
>
>          # TC validity time
>          # TcValidityTime    30.0
>
>          # MID interval in seconds(float)
>           MidInterval        5.0
>
>          # MID validity time
>          # MidValidityTime   30.0
>
>          # HNA interval in seconds(float)
>           HnaInterval        15.0
>
>          # HNA validity time
>          # HnaValidityTime   30.0
>
>          # When multiple links exist between hosts
>          # the weight of interface is used to determine
>          # the link to use. Normally the weight is
>          # automatically calculated by olsrd based
>          # on the characteristics of the interface,
>          # but here you can specify a fixed value.
>          # Olsrd will choose links with the lowest value.
>          # Note:
>          # Interface weight is used only when LinkQualityLevel is set
> to 0.
>          # For any other value of LinkQualityLevel, the interface ETX
>          # value is used instead.
>          # Weight 0
>
>
>          # If a certain route should be preferred
>          # or ignored by the mesh, the Link Quality
>          # value of a node can be multiplied with a factor
>          # entered here. In the example the route
>          # using 192.168.0.1 would rather be ignored.
>          # A multiplier of 0.5 will result in a small
>          # (bad) LinkQuality value and a high (bad)
>          # ETX value.
>          # Note:
>          # Link quality multiplier is used only when
>          # LinkQualityLevel is > 0.
>
>          # LinkQualityMult 192.168.0.1 0.5
>
>          # This multiplier applies to all other nodes
>          # LinkQualityMult default 0.8
>       }
>
>       # another Interface (with different configs)
>       Interface "eth1"
>       {
>          # IPv4 broadcast address to use.
>          # One usefull example would be 255.255.255.255
>          # If not defined the broadcastaddress of
>          # every interface which has one configured gets used
>          # The second useful value would be to
>          # specify the peer adress of an ptp-tunnel
>
>          Ip4Broadcast        192.168.255.255
>
>          # Interface Mode is used to prevent unnecessary
>          # packet forwardin on switched ethernet interfaces
>          # valid Modes are "mesh" and "ether"
>          # The default value is mesh!
>
>          Mode "ether"
>       }
>
>
> ########################################################################
>       ############
>
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: Vijai Kumar (WT01 - Joint CEO Office)
>       Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:12 AM
>       To: 'Hannes Gredler'; Michael Rack
>       Cc: (spam-protected)
>       Subject: RE: [Olsr-users] OLSR demo setup
>
>       Thanks a lot to you all....
>       I will make setup as per your suggestions and keep you posting
> the
>       progress/problems...
>
>       :)
>
>       Regards
>       vijai
>
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: Hannes Gredler [mailto:(spam-protected)]
>       Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:46 PM
>       To: Michael Rack
>       Cc: Hannes Gredler; Vijai Kumar (WT01 - Joint CEO Office);
>       (spam-protected)
>       Subject: Re: [Olsr-users] OLSR demo setup
>
>       On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 04:33:18PM +0200, Michael Rack wrote:
>       > I've told him to use 0.1 and 0.3 hello timers to get a
> fallback-route
>       > in less then 0.3sec.
>       >
>       > For streaming, you need a very fast reaction. 5 seconds to
> re-route
>       > the traffic is much too long.
>
>       makes sense;
>
>       > Am 19.08.2009 16:21, schrieb Hannes Gredler:
>       >> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 02:48:45PM +0530,
> (spam-protected)
>       wrote:
>       >> |
>       >> | Hi All,
>       >> |    I have 5 machines running the Fedora core 5. I have
> fitted the 3
>
>       >> | NIC in each machine.
>       >> |    I have compiled and installed the olsrd (olsrd-0.5.6-r5)
> at each
>
>       >> | machine.
>       >> |
>       >> |    Do we need any other physical device OR Software for
> making the
>       >> | demo so that we can show the demo with client and server
> running at
>
>       >> | two different nodes
>       >> |    via a intemediate node?
>       >>
>       >> looks like you have all you need.
>       >>
>       >> |    Please find the attached proposed schemes for
> experiment. If
>       >> | anybody has done the same Please reply me with the method.
>       >> |    Thanks in advance.
>       >>
>       >> looks good to me - make sure that you set the hello timers to
> 1sec
>       >> and the TC timers to 5s to get decent re-reouting times.
>       >>
>       >> /hannes
>       >>
>       >>
>       >
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